What “The Only” Experience Really Feels Like & How to Become a Better Ally

An Exclusive Interview with Stephanie Foster, Product Manager at Fiserv

In the D&I community we often talk about how difficult “the only” experience can be. The feeling of being the only woman, or the only person of color in a room. But what does that really feel like and how can it shape our perspective of what a powerful inclusion strategy really looks like?

In this interview, we spoke with Stephanie Foster, Product Manager at the leading fintech business Fiserv, and founder of the Women in Wireless movement. We’re honored that she shared her experiences of being the only woman of color in the room, and how that shaped her world view of what it takes to be a better ally.

In this interview, you’ll discover:

• • Challenges faced by minorities in the workplace
  • How to make sure that bias is not influencing promotion decisions or feedback at the workplace
  • The importance of embracing people for bringing their whole selves into the workplace
  • Mentor vs Sponsor – what’s needed today

Listen in above (cc available), or read below the transcript of our interview with Stephanie. You can also listen on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts.

FIONA: Our guest today is Stephanie foster, product manager at the leading FinTech business Fiserv. Stephanie began her stellar career in finance tech nearly two decades ago and today has such accolades as being featured in the Electronic Transactions Association, Forty under 40 and as a Money 20/20 rise app finalist. As part of her commitment to strengthening diversity and inclusion, Stephanie co-founded the group Women in Wireless with the mission to connect, inspire and empower women in the tech industry. Stephanie describes herself as a champion for women of colour and is going to talk to us today about her personal experiences as a woman of colour in the FinTech industry and how she’s using what she’s learned to lift other women up. Welcome Stephanie.

STEPHANIE: Hi Fiona. Thank you so much for having me in the podcast today. It’s really an honour and I’m excited to share my voice and my experiences with your listeners.

FIONA: Thank you. It’s great to have you here. Can you kick off by telling us a bit more about the work you do at Fiserv and also in the Women in Wireless community?

STEPHANIE:  Sure, of course. So I’m in product management at Fiserv and I currently manage a fast solution that we have created for large banks as well as large B2B organizations. So it’s really cool stuff, working on AI and machine learning to help automate payment processes for our clients. Really cool innovation and then after a long day at work I spend my time with Women in Wireless. It’s a group that I helped co-found here in Atlanta and really our mission is to help develop the next generation of thought leaders in the industry. So we meet once a month with all women panel to allow them to speak about what’s happening in the industry as it relates to innovation and mentorship and help bring up the next generation. So it’s really cool stuff. I’m really passionate about it.

FIONA: Awesome. So I wanted to ask you something that we usually ask all of our guests on Inclusion Works. Can you tell us what personal experiences made you aware of inclusion and diversity issues and made you really passionate about this that led to launching Women in Wireless?

STEPHANIE: Oh wow, that’s a loaded one [laughs] because well I mean if you think about who I am and what I look like. So you know I’m a young black immigrant female, started my career in FinTech when I was only 17 years old. So I like to think of myself as a poster child for D&I because for the longest time I was always you know the only woman in the room or one of the few women in the room and over the last 20 years it’s gotten better, both internal and external meetings but you know the one consistent trend that I see is that I am consistently the only minority or a person of colour in a lot of these boardrooms and you know

I was at a banking conference earlier this year and I’m sitting at the table, we’re having breakfast, it’s like 8 a.m. okay and I’m sitting at a table, again only person of colour and we’re all introducing ourselves, you know my name is so-and-so. I work for this company and this is where I’m from, because we have people from all over the country and also from Canada at this conference and there was one gentleman at the table who mentioned that he was from Philadelphia. So I you know I promptly respond and I say,” Hey my father-in-law is from Philadelphia. Whereabouts are you from?” Fiona can you guess what this person’s response was to me?

FIONA: Was he thinking there’s no way that people where you’re from are from Philadelphia like you’re actually you know thinking maybe oh you’re an immigrant, right and this isn’t really your home. I’m probably thinking along these lines by the way. Recent events with Trump and his rally and what’s been in the news recently. We’re in August right now 2019 to give some context. So wait, am I right? Is that what he said?

STEPHANIE: Very interesting right, I say my father-in-law is from Philadelphia and his immediate response,” Is he a thug?” And we all know what the word thug means, right?

FIONA: Yes.

STEPHANIE: We’re at a banking conference, a professional setting. It’s 8:00 a.m. we’re having breakfast, and this is what comes out of your mouth, when I’m the only black person at this table. Ridiculous.

FIONA: That is actually ridiculous. That is I think worse than Trump’s comments, if I can say that [laughs] I can only imagine how you felt in that situation. I want to hear from you like how do you even respond to that, right.

STEPHANIE: Shocked.

FIONA: I mean I think I would have been enraged.

STEPHANIE: Total total shock because I don’t expect I don’t expect to experience that, but you know thankfully at the time I was able to respond back and say,” Actually he’s a retired president of a company.” And I just walked away, but you know these are just some of many challenges that you know women like me face in the workplace and I’m not saying that it’s common or that happens every day but it does impact how you feel about being in this industry and in these environments were again you’re like the only one all the time.

FIONA: Yes, and that I mean I think when we talk about inclusion right, it’s like what’s so important is making sure that people who have that experience being the only one don’t feel like a complete outsider, right. That’s ultimately what it’s all about is like making sure everyone feels like they have a place at the table. They have a voice at the table.

STEPHANIE: Yes, that is the ultimate goal.

FIONA: So you’ve been really open about talking about early on in your career. You never really thought that bias would impact you because you knew that you kicked ass, right?

STEPHANIE: That’s right.

FIONA: I’m just wondering how have some of these experiences like you just mentioned one which clearly this is bias coming out of someone’s mouth, right in in different words, but that is essentially what’s underpinning that phrase is he a thug is biased, but can you tell us more about some of those other experiences you’ve had that have changed your thinking and made you realize bias is actually pretty significant influence.

STEPHANIE: Yes sure. So again, I started my career very early on and the office that I worked in at the time was the headquarters for a Latin America and the Caribbean. So I always thought I worked in a diverse environment because we had leaders and employees from Argentina, from Brazil, from Jamaica, Costa Rica. A number of languages was spoken in my office or as far as I was concerned, hey I worked in a diverse environment and I loved it. And I’ve gotten the opportunities and I was promoted. So as far as I was concerned I was killing it and it was all good but as I you know continue to grow in my career I realized that a lot of you know my colleagues were being promoted ahead of me or at least their careers were moving a lot faster than mine was and I could never understand why, right because I again I had never been exposed to these things like I didn’t know if it was me. I didn’t know if I was doing anything wrong, but you know as I started to talk to more people and learn about unconscious bias and how it does impact women and minorities in the workplace. I started to change the way that I approach things and I don’t know if you aware but McKenzie and Lean In actually published a study. Actually, they’ve been doing this for the last five years. So the last one in 2018 about women in the workplace had some really startling statistics and it revealed two major things. So one, women are significantly underrepresented in leadership in corporate America and the number two organizations really need to change the way that they’re hiring and promoting entry level and manager level employees, so they can really make progress in that area. One of the other startling statistics from this study is that you know while only one in and five c-suite leaders is a woman, only one and 25 is a woman of colour.

FIONA: Wow.

STEPHANIE: Isn’t that crazy?

FIONA: Yes that is actually insane, especially when you look at the level of diversity in the US today, right. That is so disproportionate.

STEPHANIE: Yes it is really and you know obviously I do see that there is opportunity in the industry to make some changes in that area because I think of myself as a woman who has you know have a lot of ambitions and I really want my career. My ultimate goal is to end up in the c-suite but I have to work a lot harder than everybody else to get there and I look at the statistics and it explains why I am where I am today and what I need to do to continue to grow.

FIONA: So you mentioned that you were seeing colleagues promoted ahead of you, right? What advice would you give to leaders out there listening who are interested in really being equitable in the way that they are working with their teams to make sure that bias is not influencing promotion decisions or the feedback they’re giving, like what are some of the ways you’ve seen that bias has crept into those sorts of decisions?

STEPHANIE: I mean it’s more than just a bias from what I see it’s the unconscious part of it is that a lot of times they don’t even realize that they are being biased. I’ve read a lot of studies and also I’ve heard a lot of research, you know researcher mentioning things like you know typically managers will promote a person who looks just like them because it reminds them of who they were at that stage in their career, right or there’s a perception that you know men tend to be promoted based on potential whereas women are likely promoted due to performance and results. Again, I love statistics, so I’m going to throw out another one from the McKinsey Women in the Workplace study, which states that for every 100 men that are promoted in corporate America, only 79 women are promoted. For every 100 men that are promoted only 84 white women are promoted and this is the part where you’re going to go whoa. For every 100 men that are promoted only 60 black women are promoted.

FIONA: Okay and these are facts from the study where they spoke to you know over 500 different organizations in corporate America and you know women have been asked these questions across the organizations. Men also have been asked these questions and it’s just really funny how the perception of gender equality and leadership in corporate America. When you ask a man, they’re like well it’s a pipeline issue. We don’t have enough women that are interested in these roles or enough women that are applying for these roles and then when you ask us you ask women they’re like but we are ambitious and we want these opportunities, but they’re just not given to us.

FIONA: Absolutely there’s a disconnect there, right.

STEPHANIE: Exactly.

FIONA: I think I’ve seen this same report and some other data too that shows when you look at kind of talent funnel as you might call it. As you as the funnel becomes more and more senior you see that women are just left behind right and it cannot be explained away by as you say it’s a pipeline issue. It cannot be explained away by oh you know women are leaving the workforce to have kids or whatever having gaps in their career, those sorts of things like it is disproportionate. There is no way to explain it other than bias.

STEPHANIE: Yes. Absolutely.

FIONA: And I think there’s a lot of other like really subtle things that you know as you mentioned the kind of affinity bias of oh this person reminds me of myself when I was younger and I really want to help them and I think they deserve to be given a chance and kind of which makes you blind to maybe some of their faults and also makes you really notice all the great things they’re doing. So that’s a huge has a huge impact but I think there’s so many like there’s a kaleidoscope with the different things around that as well, right. There’s like the feedback you’re giving every day. There’s the subtle messages like when you walk through the office, who are you meeting eyes with and who are you not. When you’re in a meeting, who are you listening hard to and who are you sort of you know when they’re speaking you’re taking down notes and you’re only halfway listening to, like those that is all pretty unconscious right, but actually-

STEPHANIE: Oh my gosh.

FIONA: So that’s something I’m personally super passionate about is evening that out and just becoming more aware as a leader like okay, how in my micro movements my micro looks and you know attention I’m giving people. How am I potentially being biased and making sure to notice that and also correct for it and just to move on a little bit. You also mentioned a little earlier about the experience of being the only one in the room and how much pressure comes with that. There’s definitely there’s also loads of data to back up that that is super challenging and also is a barrier, right? For minority group members, for underrepresented people in the workforce. Can you tell us what that feels like?

STEPHANIE: Yes sure. So again, I’ve been so naive this entire time and you know it really never occurred to me that I was the only one in the room for the longest time. To me it was just a norm because that’s what I ever only known for so many years, but on a more serious note, it’s very challenging to you know to be the only woman or the only young person or the only immigrant, only woman of colour or the only person of colour for that matter, right or be the only person who has small children, when everybody else has grandchildren that are the ages of my children [laughs] it’s hard to connect to that level, but I do feel like I think I need to represent for all these different categories because if I make the wrong move then I failed and I ruined that for everyone and I don’t want to be the person who’s reinforcing negative stereotypes about women and people who look like me. I’ll give you another example when this happened about a year ago. I was sitting in a meeting in a boardroom, alright. There are 10 people, out of the total of 10 only three of us were women and just like every other meeting, I’m the only person of colour, but it was a lively discussion around how to tackle a challenge that our group was facing and so everybody’s speaking up. Many of us are agitated and we’re like yes, no. This is what we should do or I disagree and I spoke up just like everybody else, I shared my thoughts in a very similar manner that the men around the room had done. So meeting ends and one of our senior leaders pulls me aside after the meeting to ask me why was I so frustrated. So, I’m standing there and I’m like what are you talking about? I wasn’t frustrated. I felt the exact same way that you felt and I was agreeing with you and echoing your sentiments and again at the time I’m so naive like I didn’t get it but you know I went home and I spoke to my husband and I’m replaying the entire scenario in my head, I’m like wait was this a case of the angry black women like was I perceived as being angry when I was just passionate about the topic.

FIONA: It’s that old trope, right?

STEPHANIE: Yes and that happens like all the time and now I’m having to look of all sorts of resources about you know managing my emotional intelligence and how I communicate with certain people and it just it’s so taxing and it’s exhausting to have to constantly be self-aware, so that I am not perceived in a certain way and then literally I joke that maybe I need to get like a t-shirt or hold up a sign that says Stephanie is not angry. Stephanie is not upset. She is just voicing her opinion.

FIONA: It’s amazing to me, right because it is it’s literally it’s using a different yardstick for you versus someone who maybe is what like a white male kind of like majority group member and even if your behaviours is exactly the same, you are judged differently with a different yardstick and it’s what I’m hearing from you as well is so frustrating thinking about inclusion here is like I’m hearing that you not only have to be super self-aware but also have to kind of self-sensor like oh I can’t be I cannot bring my whole self to this potentially because I might get reamed for it or this might come out my performance review that I’m being intimidating or that I’m being too frustrated and too emotional. Those sorts of things and that’s frustrating because it’s like you know going back to the culture piece right you want to be truly inclusive. You have to embrace people for bringing their whole selves right, and there’s so much value in that too.

STEPHANIE: Yes. I mean absolutely. I want to be able to you know show up to work and attend all these networking events and be a part of all these organizations, you know attend my client meetings and go in as Stephanie who I am, but I do have to watch my demeanour and how I speak and how loud I speak and ensure that I’m managing those perceptions in the right way.

FIONA: And that’s such a great insight I think for those of us who haven’t become woke to what it feels like to be the only one because I think when you’re always used to being in groups to people who largely look like you, you don’t feel that pressure and you don’t feel that oh I have to make sure that I’m kind of on my best behavior like I must not do anything or say anything that makes people pull out that old trope again.

STEPHANIE: Yes. Exactly and you know I read an article not too long ago that you know talked about how women of colour or the fastest-growing demographic and interpreters these days and it says that many of us are leaving corporate America to work for ourselves and be our own bosses in charge of our own destinies because we are very often misunderstood at work and overlooked for these opportunities.

FIONA: Yes and that’s a real talent issue right, like corporate America potentially missing out on that diversity which is so crucial we know for innovation for creativity for really the best business outcomes.

STEPHANIE: Yes, exactly.

FIONA: So just to switch gears a little bit, I know you do loads of mentoring work where you share your advice for young women entering the workplace and I know you have loads of practical tips to share on that front, but what advice would you share for those people who are rallying around these young women, right or those who are really supportive of diversity. How can they become a better ally? What are some practical things they can do?

STEPHANIE: Yes, so I’m as you know I’m really passionate about this topic and I really do think that it’s my duty and my responsibility to be able to give back and mentor and help guide the next generation the same way that the previous generation had guided me throughout my career journey. So this is a great question. Thank you for bringing that up. I think about how others have helped me, and I would mirror that behavior and say first of all

And you know be mindful of these interactions and I’d also say bring another person with you when you have a seat at the table so that you’re no longer the only and this is something that I personally tried to do as much as I can. A lot of times I’ll invite other female members of the team to join me doing a quarterly business review or to join me on a client meeting. So that I’m no longer the only one in the room, right. There’s another woman with me or there’s somebody else at the table with me and you know I would say also champion champion the other the other only is that are on your team and advocate for them. Put them up for the next promotion. Invite them to speak with you on a panel, so that they have additional exposure in the industry. Invite them to contribute to your next project or contribute to this white paper that you’re writing about your product launch, I mean just bring them along for the ride. If you truly want to be an ally, we have to speak up for those who do not have a voice or maybe do not feel empowered to use their voice.

FIONA: And I guess that’s also about amplifying a good work you see people around you doing, right and really even if it is in a different business division than yours, whatever, but how you using the connections you have to make sure that that great work is being seen and heard around the business.

STEPHANIE: Yes. Absolutely and you know thankfully I have been blessed throughout my career to have identified some of these champions internally who will speak up for me when I’m not in the room. Who will make sure that my name shows up and that I’m being considered for a certain opportunity. So I am truly truly grateful that there have been people who have seeing that potential in me and have advocated on my behalf and I want to be able to do that for others too.

FIONA: Have you had a proper kind of sponsor?

STEPHANIE: I’ve had many throughout my career and again so funny I did not even realize that they were sponsors [laughs] until like a couple of years ago and that became a day in the industry like oh really so when you know when so-and-so put me up for this promotion that was a sponsor and that’s so cool. So actually, I’ve gone back and emailed three senior leaders that I worked with throughout my career who have been extremely supportive and put my name up for promotion and I said thank you for being a sponsor. At the time I didn’t realize that but now that I know better, I want to thank you for giving me these opportunities.

FIONA: I just I just had a guest on the show which would probably be the episode before this one. Her names Zella King from organization called the Personal Boardroom and it’s well worth you are checking this out as well and for the audience to listen this other episode because it is very closely linked to sponsorship. It’s essentially about packing your personal boardroom, the close people around you in a work context, making sure you have people who can give you access to power, right, to resources, to support. To all those who championing you, giving you that sort of guidance that you need to thrive in your career both inside your business and inside your current role and also for the next big things whether it’s in your business or outside of it and it’s such a powerful concept, right and I think particularly when we think about underrepresented groups. It is so so important to have that sponsor in your corner who’s advocating for you.

STEPHANIE: Yes, it is key. It is key to climbing the corporate ladder, absolutely.

FIONA: So just a question about FinTech specifically. How different do you think your experiences as a young woman entering the FinTech industry would be today if you were just starting your career, I mean I know you said you started this work at the age of 17, which is just amazing to me right. I feel like I was just like a baby back then. If you were 17 today how would it be different, or would it be different?

STEPHANIE: Oh my gosh. It would be dramatically different. I mean we live in a world today where there are like tons of resources and technology groups. There are books like Lean In Sheryl Sandberg, know they talk about climbing the corporate ladder and being a mom in corporate America and seeking a seat at the table and actually and I have to plug for Minda Harts who is she has a new book called “The Memo” coming out on 8/20 so August 28th of this year, that focuses on the experiences of women of colour in the workplace. So it’s kind of like Lean In but for me. And you have all these studies by McKinsey about you know Women in the Workplace and a number of other resources like Women in Wireless that I helped launch in Atlanta and for my industry there’s also W Net Women’s Network and electronic transactions and tons of resources today to really help support women and I find that a lot of the you know like this new generation they are a lot more confident than I ever was at that age and they’re not afraid to speak up and ask for what they want like 20 years ago, I never would have done that, like I go to work, I kept my head down, I did my work and I was done and now I’m speaking on this global podcast with you sharing my thoughts like I never would have done that. So the world really really has changed and thinking additionally to like a lot of organizations are investing in diversity and inclusion. They’re appointing Chief D&I Officers or resource groups. Courses on unconscious bias and implementing measures within their hiring processes to try to decrease bias. So it’s the world has changed for sure and I have a five-year-old daughter and I can’t wait to see where she goes and watch her accomplishes because the world is changing and it’s changing for the better.

FIONA: Absolutely. I have so much hope for it, it’s actually working in this space and how much investment you see. There’s just there’s no way that things are not going to change significantly in the next 10 years, right and that’s what’s so exciting I think, and also with all the amazing work that you’re doing like with Women in Wireless, right, is just paving that path for the next generation.

STEPHANIE: Exactly. Yes, so very very hopeful for the future.

FIONA: So what is one unpopular opinion you have about diversity and inclusion?

STEPHANIE: Wow. I have a lot like which one do you want me to [laughs]

FIONA: The least popular.

STEPHANIE: Oh my God. I really hope I don’t get in trouble for saying this which like I have being dying-

FIONA: Not required for this podcast.

STEPHANIE: Alright, hashtag done, okay. So my big “unpopular” opinion would be that I really think that organizations need to do a better job at identifying women of colour like me who have strong career ambitions and want to climb the corporate ladder, all the way to the top, but lack access to sponsorship from those senior leaders or you know have managers that are holding them back. Because if I think about myself like there is no natural forum or natural environment for me to have access the senior leaders in my organization and get a seat at the table. So I like I need to be creative and find all these different ways to access leaders and I have to build my brand both online and offline, you know be on boards of organizations to get my name out. It’s a lot of extra work that need to do to get the exposure so that people can notice me and voice my career ambitions and where I want to go. Like there’s no natural way within organizations for me to get that access today.

FIONA: It’s a great point. I think that’s so true for other organizations as well. I wonder if you have any thoughts about how to build in that sort of access that just comes naturally. I mean I’ve seen I’ve seen it being done a little bit through mentoring and sponsoring programs in reverse mentoring and that sort of thing. I wonder if you have any thoughts on what the best way to both is identify those individuals, who are super ambitious and high potential all those sorts of great things and also build that channel of communication and access as you talked about.

STEPHANIE: I mean I know a lot of companies do try to implement mentoring programs, but you know I think we’re at a place currently where you know it’s more than just mentoring. I’ve had like 12 mentors over my lifetime and mentors are great but I’m beyond that in my career. What I need is a sponsor. I need somebody who is a group president or an EVP or a SVP, who I’ve built a relationship with, who recognizes my work, my potential, my accomplishments, and how I’ve delivered results for organizations over the last 20 years. Who understand that Stephanie wants to be CEO one day, so what can I do to help her and provide actionable steps to help me get there because currently I don’t have access to anyone helping me get there. So I think that you know not even at the organizational level because that’s hard.  That’s a very big ask right, but I’d say at the individual level, those who do have that power who know women like me. Who have voiced it and have said it out loud to take accountability and say I’m going to help you and I know it’s a big ask not everybody’s going to do it or want to do it or have the time to do it or even care but I’m making it my mission, whenever I reach the c-suite I will seek out these young women who are as ambitious as I am and I’m going to help them get there.

FIONA:  And I have seen that done a bit you know with some of our clients have told me about for instance really having executive bonuses and you know performance reviews, those sorts of things tied to specific metrics on diversity and progression of underrepresented talent, right and so I have seen it, it’s been done certainly and that’s more of a push rather than a pull away ,right. Rather than trying to bring people along this journey get people to understand why this matters and get them to really as you say make the time for it you know but it’s interesting to think about how can every one of our listeners take a nugget away from this, it’s like in my mind it’s like who do I know in my team  today who looks different than me, who thinks differently than me.  Who can I help along their journey, right through the odd coffee that we have, through understanding what they’re doing and amplifying their good work because each of us does have power in a way, right?

STEPHANIE:  Absolutely.

FIONA: And has a role to play in this.

STEPHANIE: Yes for sure and I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Mellody Hobson, she’s the president of Ariel Investments, oh my gosh she is like I want to be her when I grow up.

FIONA: Yes, me too.

STEPHANIE: Yes I know.

FIONA: If listeners haven’t heard her TED talk, I’ll just say quickly colour blind or colour brave? You must watch it. It’s so good.

STEPHANIE: Absolutely. The best the best and I’d read in an article that she talked about how you know there are consequences when we don’t meet our goals in business. You know people will lose their jobs because they didn’t you know they didn’t meet their earnings targets or they missed production deadlines, but when it comes to diversity initiatives there are no measures, right, like nobody’s be really being held accountable to a certain measure for diversity and it shows in the numbers it’s not good. We’re not getting anywhere because yes, we’re appointing you know these D&I officer and investing and these training online training programs and webinars, which is great right. You got to start with own awareness, but nobody is truly being held accountable.

FIONA: Yes, totally agree with you. It’s like anything in business you know like as you say if you want to drive results you need like a really stretchy goal. You need a really actionable plan to get there and you need someone accountable to do it right. Some sort of yardstick to measure yourself up against for it and if you don’t like yeah there’s no hope, of course, there’s no hope in making real change and in entrenched large complex global organizations. There’s just no hope.

STEPHANIE: Yes, completely agree with you.

FIONA: So finally, I’d just want to ask you one very tiny question. What is a simple thing that anyone could do this week to build inclusion in their workplace?

STEPHANIE:  Something simple, you know I’ll say what I try to do every day is to just make a friend, make a new friend. Find that one person in the office that you’ve never spoken to who know might look different than you do or might be a little bit quirky [laughs] just like just have a chat with them and get to know them because you just you never know and you might be surprised how it all works out that you know you might end up being this person’s champion or they could end up championing you in a couple of years. So my advice is to just you know just make a friend. Meet somebody new who is different. Who you normally would never have approached and just be like Nike and do it, but just do it [laughs]

FIONA: I love that. Thank you so much Stephanie for sharing all the stories and insights with us today. I’m sure there’s loads for listeners to take away from our conversation. If anyone listening wants to stay connected with you. What’s the best way for them to do that?

STEPHANIE: Sure, thank you so much Fiona for having me again, an honour and a privilege to have the opportunity to share my voice with your listeners, so thank you. If anyone would be interested in staying in touch you can reach me via LinkedIn, just look up Stephanie Foster or also I am quite active on Twitter so you can follow me on twitter. My handle is @Payments_Geek on twitter. So I look forward to connecting with all of you. Brilliant and we’ll put those in the show notes too for anyone who wants to look you up and thank you to our listeners as well for listening in today to Inclusion Works. We’ll have another inclusion expert up for you soon.

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An Exclusive Interview with Stephanie Foster, Product Manager at Fiserv